Overcome the fear of Sales, with John Molyneux

Overcome the fear of Sales, with John Molyneux

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Jake Anderson  0:00  
Yeah, peace and then I recorded on my board here. Yeah, here we go. Alright.

Announcer  0:09  
introspective, inward looking, self examining, characterized by or given to introspection. Welcome to the introspective podcast is your compass for internalizing the path towards optimal lifestyle design, business success and mindful entrepreneurship with your host, Jake Anderson.

Jake Anderson  0:33  
What is happening by introspective listeners we are back for another episode here on the introspective podcast. And we're going to talk about some things today that I think really is going to challenge your discipline as an entrepreneur, really talking about some uncomfortable things in business to get especially if anybody's ever done this. And I know you're probably gonna cringe when I say this cold calling, you know, if you've ever had to go and cold call, right? It can, it can almost feel just the level of discomfort that comes from that can really can really take you to a place of resistance. And I've been there before I'm sure anybody here has ever had a cold call. It's tough like you feel like you're interrupting somebody's day and yet the objection that people can bring to you it can be really uncomfortable, but no need to fear because today I have john Molyneux, who is the sales samurai. He is somebody who's really combined sales and martial arts as a martial arts expert. With his extensive experience in cold calling door to door and on phones, he has done hundreds of 1000s of dollars in sales. In the last 12 months, he has sold a number of products and services over the years. He is incredible. His sales Samurai He began his journey in the 20s when he served at her majesty's pleasure in the British Armed Forces. And even though he was not destined to be a soldier for the rest of his career, this experience set the stage for his entrepreneurial path to becoming the sales samurai. So without further ado, I bring to the show, john Molyneux john, what has happened in the day,

John Molyneux  2:12  
I will find your introduction that was something else wasn't I?

Jake Anderson  2:16  
Yeah, man I love I love the uniqueness of your background. It's really interesting that I've never I've never seen this mixture of expertise that's been combined into almost just this one area where you're combining martial arts and sales. And I find it I find it really interesting that when people are able to combine an expertise in something like a martial arts and, and I've seen some other other instances, I had a guy who actually used hypnosis, he was like a certified hypnosis, and he was able to combine that with sales. And I think it gives you almost like a really unique advantage. So I want to start with that, like, tell me about your martial arts expertise and how that really meshes together with sales.

John Molyneux  2:59  
Yeah, of course. I mean, after a while, it kind of just became a no brainer to come up with the sales summary. Just it was just kind of one of them lightbulb moments, but the reason that it that it kind of came to fruition was well, in my younger years, I was into traditional box, I did a lot of boxing. And then when I when I came out and and when I was in the military, I was doing regular traditional boxing. But then when I came out, I did a little bit Thai boxing and that kind of thing. And then I just kind of fell into karate purely because it was I was trained to be an instructor, it was kind of a job. So I managed to find a job where they they teach you how to become a sensor. But like Cobra Kai, so I got started to be a sensei. But part of my role was trying to grow and build up the classes for the existing instructors while I was going through the training. So that's what I did. And it took like five years, but in that five years, I was knocking on doors every night. So I do like two or three hours of crack training most days, like five, six times a week. And then on the evenings I'll be going out knocking doors all around the local area to build classes up. Well, I'd sell it all in this kind of southwest of England. So pretty much everywhere, just knocking on doors every evening. So that's kind of where my sales and my slots. They were kind of thrown together anyway even from the beginning.

Jake Anderson  4:21  
So when you were knocking What were you selling just curious, like when you were knocking door to door what what specifically things were you selling?

John Molyneux  4:28  
Well, I was promoting the karate classes. So that was tight. That was That is why it was it was it was unique because it was I've gotten the training for free so I didn't have to pay for any of my grades I need any of the sort of techniques or strategies I anything that I was taught to run the classes, but I was expected to build it the classes for the existing students and eventually I was building my own classes or by doing door to door.

Jake Anderson  4:51  
I see now gotcha. I thought at first I was thinking that you were doing karate. And then you were it was kind of like a side thing like outside of karate to go door to door. You're actually using. So your whole day was wrapped into the same objective, which was to build that. So tell me about like, its I person I've never done door to door sales. I have definitely been on the receiving end of the door. Yeah. And I would have met magian that, especially in this day and time, if you don't mind me asking when when was this time when you started doing door to door sales?

John Molyneux  5:25  
Yeah, this was probably our probably started about 10 years ago. So and like I said, five years ago, so in the last five years, I've moved on and done, I went out from door to door to solve affiliate marketing, lead generation, cold calling on the telephones, high ticket closing. So pretty much everything you can think of the mC mC create a sales summary.

Jake Anderson  5:50  
So So you were doing door to door sales when people were pretty high and their objective and resistance of the door to door to like people would be like, as I remember, I remember when it like in the 90s you know, where cuz I was a 90s kid I grew up in the 90s. And I remember door to door salesmen were seem to be a little bit more received. Like it was like, it was a little more Okay. And then as we got into like the the millennial generation and kind of in the 2000s it was like you'd hear somebody knocking on the door, you're like, I cut off the lights, cut off lights, you know, it's like we've gone to the garden, everybody's become this, like, there's so just like, Nah, they put up this barrier. And maybe, maybe that's just like, like the little sampling world that I live in. But being that you were kind of doing this at a time maybe it's different in England, maybe that's just how it is out in the United States. Maybe that like in my neighborhoods, that's how people are but like, would you mind sharing some of the stories that you had as a door door salesman? Like what kind of resistance would you get? And like how did how did you overcome that? Because I think that's a big like anybody thinks about doing door to door sales? Like Gosh, the thought of just somebody slamming the door in my face or, you know, you know, cussing me out or what have you just makes me cringe?

John Molyneux  7:06  
Yeah, and don't get me wrong in it does everybody I wasn't any different to anybody else right for Stein knocking on doors, I didn't think Oh, I can't wait to have a few doors slammed in my face. I can't wait to be taught to fuck off or whatever I can't like I'm really looking forward to. It wasn't the highlight of my day. But I had a goal and a drive out I had a vision in mind. And that was a black belt. So it didn't seem to bother me that I got these doors shut in my face. I mean England's or getting drenched every night as well. It was strange random when gale force winds and stuff and I'm out knocking doors. I didn't care because I had a goal in sight. So if you can be that one track, one track man, you're not really concerned about the the kind of negatives or the things that go against you. And one thing I noticed about sales and this is this is probably a life in general is when you feel like giving up that's when you push that bit extra it was going the extra mile I got awards for it and Madonna can dares awards for going the extra mile. So when if say I was in a team, and there was three or four of us and roll drench roll Robin out in the rain for like three or four hours, everybody's had enough. I've not managed to get any appointments that night. So I think right, I'm gonna knock two more doors or five more doors It was then last one that is sometimes in the very last door that you knock, Bob, you get the opponent for four or five people and then you just completely turn your whole night around. And you're not got wet for no reason you've got wet because you've made making money. So it's just that giving you the extra drive that I think a lot of that probably stemmed from the military as well. So in certain respects, I may have had some advantages, because it was that sheer determination to keep pushing and keep pushing, and even when everything's against you, you just keep going. So that's the kind of mentality you need. I think a lot of people that are successful in business or entrepreneurship or they kind of have that.

Jake Anderson  8:51  
Yeah, I mean, I can, I would imagine that the martial arts. When I think of when I think of martial arts, I think that one of the there's two things that come to mind when I think about the benefits from being involved in martial arts. And the first one is it gives you tremendous focus, and makes you more disciplined. And as somebody and more also resilient in a lot of ways do you know so? And that all kind of ties into what you're talking about in sales and doing something that is, you know, probably one of the toughest ways I was, I would imagine this is the toughest, most challenging way of doing sales going door to door. And I mean among anything, it's like, you know, I'm actually like I'm knocking on their door face to face. I mean, it's it's challenging, but if you're focused, and if you're disciplined if you're resilient to take it beyond those two or three extra that you were planning to do just to see if you can, you know, get to that place of success. That all kind of stems from the root of martial arts that You have been training for and it has been conditioning you to be that type of person. Would you agree?

John Molyneux  10:06  
Yeah. 100%. And yeah, it's a lot of things are like mind over matter, aren't you kind of, we're all human. And we all want to throw the towel in, especially if we're getting a lot of resistance or a lot of bad things happening. So it's pretty, it's just that kind of overcoming it and persevere. And it's like, when I say for example, if we're on the telephones and I'm doing cold calling on the phone, what a lot of people do is if they if they tell themselves, they're going to call fake numbers in a day, and then they call two numbers and the second person hangs up on them, they'll forget it for the rest of the day. Maybe just be just defeat yourself straight away. Whereas if I do it, and I get I get a hang up on that second call. Yeah, I'm not I'm not happy about it, but I'll have a breather I'll just go in and have a drink of water and whatever it is you do whether you're smart or whatever it is you do. Like I'd say do breathing techniques I don't smoke anymore but once upon a time I don't matter of fact guys cigarette but no it is I just haven't do a deep breathing or something. I'll listen to some music for five minutes and I'll just get back on the phone again. So that that gives you them chances again, so basically you've gone from that then 30 calls so if you give it off that same guy 28 potential chances you divided making a sale. You just thrown away because you're smart. You dominate because you had somebody hang up on you.

Jake Anderson  11:22  
Yeah, my first job out of college was I worked for Wells Fargo financial. And I think it's okay to tell it tells it what I mean. Here is my story. I worked with Wells Fargo financial. And for some reason I was thinking in my mind like my mom would say that there's like a copyright username here that I need to be aware of. But anyway, I worked for Wells Fargo financial and I remember I'll share a fun story talking about cold calling this is something you and the listeners will enjoy because this is like a total fail. I mean big time bomb it so here's here's what happened. I was brand new I was just fresh out of college my first job out of college I was 22 years old. And my sales manager was like Okay, I'm gonna shadow you today on sales calls. I was ambitious man like I was ready to conquer I was gonna hop salesperson company is all this like the Wells Fargo financial all it was was selling was subprime lending. So selling basically loans to people who shouldn't be more in the first price place, right? You believe that? You shouldn't borrow money in the first place. So people really bad credit. And, and I remember she sat behind me and she's like, okay, they had this thing called new leads new leads would show you like it was all they call them warm leads because they're all commercial Wells Fargo you're just trying to upsell them or get them into new products and they always try to sell like the consolidate the debt consolidation product like if you consolidate your debts will lower your payments and this all these things and well, there was one guy pulled up his pulled up his eliades No, should you like a soft credit pool? And he had I mean, this guy was drowning in debt. He had like 16 credit cards. I mean, all these credit cards are all backstabbing is a bad was a bad situation. In my my sales manager says you should point that out to him on the on this cold call. I said Really? She goes yeah, she's like that, you know, it's a that's a that's that's a problem. Clearly, it's a problem. So I get on the call, and I call this guy picks up. And as I told him, I said, Yeah, I'm seeing that you got started spelling out all the credit card debt. He said, Man, I have never been so cussed out in my life. Down left, right. He said, He's like, I will never ever do business with the company. And I'm the whole time. I'm like, dumbfounded, like, I'm so sorry. I, you know, I get it. I understand. I got I got looked at my missiles, man. It's like, Yeah, I don't think it's a good idea to point out all of these, you know, all of these things and all these problems of their debt, because obviously like he knows he's aware, he's, I mean, somebody takes the bed with them every day, about his financial situation. He doesn't need me cold, calling him to point that out.

John Molyneux  14:12  
Theory like rubbing salt into the rooms of Colorado as

Jake Anderson  14:16  
well. And it's like since like, let's get into some, like, let's talk about what you what you what are some things that you need to really be mindful of, if you're going to cold call somebody? And like, what are some of the things that you should? And I think that's one of the things that you should definitely I remember that was one of the lessons I learned like, well, if I call this call cold call somebody. And obviously it depends on the industry you're in but like this being finance and dealing with people's money, very sensitive thing, you know, this is very sensitive. So if they're in a lot of financial trouble, you don't use that as a sales tool to point that out to them because then it's going to create like, Wait a second. Are you throwing this in my face? Now? It's kind of weird, that guy took it but what are you Like, give me your take on this, like, what are some of the things that you should be thinking about? If you're going to call cold call somebody? What are things that you should maybe be considerate of saying and things that you should avoid saying on this call? Yeah.

John Molyneux  15:12  
Well, in a situation like that, for example, you know, the pain points and then nor their own pain points. So you have to be kind of tread water carefully, don't insane. Have you looked at all on different angles? Have you considered different ways of kind of consolidating? Or have you been kind of attempted to sort of boost your credit or by different, done in different strategies are different, I mean, trying different areas of kind of gain out of this, rather than saying, you've got this, this, this, this and this going on. And it's really diabolical, and you shake creek without a paddle? Just kind of did I mean, chain fluffy up a little bit. But I've never done that. So that's kind of a little bit sort of new to me. So I'd have to kind of try try different angles and that kind of thing. But the thing with tall coins if you're doing a real cold call, they don't know who you are from Adam, they don't know what what you do anything like that. So you kind of want to get straight to the point. They know you're cold calling because they don't they don't know. You can't say all right, man, it's certainly biology going because they don't know you. So you need to be kind of straight to the point. And don't and don't try and pull the wool over their eyes or anything. Like Don't try to be too clever with it just literally say, right? So I'm calling from such and such place. We're just wondering if you if you've tried this, this and this method for your marketing strategy, or whatever it is. And then you're like, Well, yeah, we are we are with my advisor. No. All right, excellent. So you're not even considering any looking at any other angles or any other options at all? Well, maybe how about if you let me send you an email, what's the best email to get your jollies, you just, you're just trying to slowly break them down if you can get through to that's why a lot of people get confused what cold calling is if you've emailed somebody out, they've had some kind of, that's not a cold calling, or a proper cold call, and they don't know anything about you know anything about your services during the week where you come from anything. So that's a real cold call. So yeah, I mean, just just, again, it all depends on the situation is really if you're working in a big company, you probably gonna have to try and get past the gatekeeper and stuff. But if you're already speaking to the right person, just just have a laugh. We don't just try and break the ice as well. That's always a good read. If you can get a bit of humor is somebody just say, Look, I'm cold calling instead? How's it going? Yeah, just say something. Like, well, at least in our straight away. That is a cold call, you know, you just just kind of don't take yourself or them too seriously.

Jake Anderson  17:31  
Yeah, I've had I have had people call me. And in they, they would call and it was I'll be like, Hello. You're like, Hey, man, speak with Jake. Right? Yeah, this is Sam. And they're like, Oh, hey, Jake, how are you doing today? Like I'm doing fine. Or like, oh, and they just started trying to like spark up small talk and like, this person was this person. And then they finally like, got into it. Like, okay, like I now I feel like very misled. It's like, if you just Yeah, like you said, just jump in by Hey, listen, this is why I'm calling about and I'm just trying to see if this is something that would be of interest to you. And, you know, if we need to move forward, you know, move forward with it. But But yeah, so that's, it's, it's it's it's definitely uh, it's definitely a dicey game I would imagine like, Is it something where if you you have any like, whenever whenever you're talking about cold calling, do you ever like what's the metrics look like? What's the conversion rate? That you you think about if I if that's how I'm doing my sales like am I thinking that I need to call 100 people to get the one sale? Or like isn't like what do you what does that look? Yeah,

John Molyneux  18:44  
I think there's probably it all depends on different industries that there are slight different senses but you could be looking at something like three to five and every 100 or two to five and every 100 so it is literally I mean a lot of people say it's not a numbers game but when you when you strictly doing cold calling and proper cold calling it is a numbers game. Let's not like mixture of our words here. You're going to get a lot of people hang up you're going to get a lot of answer messages you're going to get a lot of voicemails you can get a lot of hangups so let you once you get your head around that and you just literally think right every time I die 100 people I'm going to get two or three people show a slight bit of interest so those are the only ones I'm interested in I don't give a flying through about the rest of the night is seven and eight people I speak to a hanger part of it. They don't concern me it's like when I when I say to people they don't like to be nor they don't like rejection right? If I'm if I'm what's your like? She said we said for example we're back on the doors right? So I'm knocking doors. I'm 50 doors so it says I said I used to go for 50 doors evening. I'm not I want to knock 50 doors in a night because straight away that $50 I'm only probably going to speak to 20 or 20 people because 30 people aren't going to even answer the door or they're not going to be so you know, depleting straightaway. So I might speak to 20 people Not 20 people might get three to five people showing a bit of interest. So I couldn't care less about the other 15 people I spoke to, or this closet or whatever, it doesn't really bother me because all I'm bothered about is that small percentage of the people that are going to so when you when you start to think like this, the noes are relevant. All the noise is closer to that. Yes. So if I have to speak to 20 people and I have to listen to 15 nose, I don't care about them, because that's going to be close to those five yeses. So 15 nose is equal to five yeses, I just just keep doing the maths. And I'm not very good. I'm not a math genius, right? I'm relatively average maths, but I thought I'll ever do is just put it into keep it put in plain terms and, and use numbers.

Jake Anderson  20:44  
Is there anything that that people should should look out for when they know they've got a yes? Like if I if I call if I call you, john? And I said, Hey, man, I've got this really amazing product or whatever the thing is? And because obviously, you're not going to immediately come out and say yes, I guess it's just a level of interest that they have to entertain the conversation. Yeah, kind of where it takes it from I just didn't know if there was something. Sometimes I used to have like in my my lighting company, I would have this we had a I call them green flags and red flags. And as we started having more consultations, now these were people who were coming to us, they actually reached out to us and said, I'm interested in learning about yours, that was kind of our sales process, people would reach out, then they would scheduled time to come into our consultation room to have that meeting about lighting for their event. And yeah, and what we would do is like, anytime we saw like a pattern of response, that would lead to either a yes or no, we would document that because we would be like, okay, anytime we would hear this, we typically knew, you know, or something around that same context, we knew that that would typically either lead or one or two directions. And depending on how early on you would catch it, you would know how to like gauge the level of follow through you should continue with because, you know, sometimes people just aren't qualified. So what do you think about that? Like, is there you have any kind of, I guess, qualifiers or like triggers or cues in your head when you're doing these calls? Like, you know, what, would people do this? Or that it's kind of given me some time?

John Molyneux  22:21  
It's a great question. Well, the thing that cold calling, it's exactly the same on the doors as it is on the forums, right? You've got a very, very small window, where it's a knock on the door on it, when I knock on the door, when the answer date, I used to take about 15 seconds to figure out whether it was an appointment or not that silent attack, because I can feel the body language and I can tell whether they whether they open to like me discussing something with them or not. I mean, is that is that that small window is probably even smaller than the phone call. So it'd be Yeah, I'm just calling from such and such a place today. I just wondered if you consider doing this, this and this for your business? Just be just be straight and honest with them? And then you're gonna know, because we've got no not many of them are? Well, yeah, I have kind of kinship, boom, then you're in. Right, excellent. So why don't you let me send you a little bit of information by me and what would be the best email to get hold of you. And I'll send you all the information of what we do and everything that we can if it sounds like it's up your feet, we can we can book in a chat to discuss things further. Something like that. Does that make sense? So yeah, you want to get that hooking straight away. So that's why we're with a call call. You want to beat around the bush, you don't want to go Yeah, during, like, report when people build report and stuff is when you've got time. If somebody bought a discovery call with you, divided been through some kind of process to kind of have a good idea of what they want. You've got time to build some rapport with them. But if you've if you've caught Carlson, we haven't got that time, you've got to get that Hocking straightaway. So yeah, my name is john Klein from x y&z company, I just wondered if you consider doing this, this and this within your company recently? Or have you looked at changing the x strategy to get you this in your company. So you haven't got time to estimate you want to be stretched to the point, whatever your service provides, you want to ask them if they require it, or they're looking to tweak it or whatever it is, whatever kind of angle you can get, get them up, and then you just gonna get the kind of yes or no. So that's the difference with a cold call and a warm call is is you haven't got this kind of time to mess about and do things and stretch things out and build rapport and blah, blah, blah, that that comes next. When you when you get to that stage that's that's once you manage to email them or you've managed to get that follow up call, that's when you can do all that kind of stuff. But you have to be kind of quick off the mark.

Jake Anderson  24:41  
If you ever had a you have any you have a story to share, maybe you don't, I'm just gonna put you on the spot for a second. If you ever had a situation where somebody you've called called somebody and they've given you response that leads to like a very clear now, but somehow, just somehow, you're able to magically turn it around to a Yeah,

John Molyneux  25:07  
it happened the other day. I'm always cold calling for real effects at the moment. And he said, Leslie, so I get people like you ringing all the time. I said, Oh, yeah, but you're gonna be speaking to Yeah. And he said, Well, I wish the customer said, Well, I can discuss all that with you only take 20 minutes on zoom. Close up your fix for that. I'll send you the link. No. In fact, while I've got you on the phone, I can get I can get my calendar up. I'll put you in what time are you available next week? I'm completely turned around. Cuz he went he went from stone cold. No, I speak to people all the time. I'm sick of hearing about it. So yeah, go on, then I'll get your books in next week. Wow, that literally that took like 10 seconds.

Jake Anderson  25:42  
And certainly make it sound so easy.

John Molyneux  25:45  
When you've done it, in terms of

it is easy.

Jake Anderson  25:49  
Yeah, you've never talked to me though.

John Molyneux  25:53  
Yeah, I don't care how many people you sponsor, you've not talked to me about my service and what we provide because it's bad. You're saying? All right, okay, go on. I'll give you I'll give you 20 minutes time, then just just to prove that to me,

Jake Anderson  26:05  
you got to eat almost makes you think like, the people just do that to test you. Like they like doing saying that just to be like hey, I because they might be things that your your your response to be like, okay, sir, thank you so much appreciate your your, you know, they've kind of freak out. We like you didn't freak out, you actually challenged us like, Yeah, but you've never talked to me. And I bet I think there might have been some respect that came from him probably respect this guy a little bit more, because he didn't, he didn't take the beat. He just didn't accept to be he challenged, you know, challenged me. And I want to hear more, because that's the kind of person I want to work with.

John Molyneux  26:45  
Absolutely hit the nail on the head, I've got most confidence in not only myself, but in the service, I'm provided, I want you to win as well. The reason I'm cold calling is because I want you to win with me, I want us to both win. So I'm not going to give up the first hurdle or the first objection, Cory, I'm going to overcome it and overcome, trying to overcome the second, third and the fourth until you agree to that call. And I

Jake Anderson  27:04  
think that's a that's probably a big mindset thing that people need to probably work on, as they get into doing this type of sales is, I think, I think it really helps, especially with the objection. And with the slamming of the doors in your face and the hangups to approach it with the mindset of I really want this person to win. This is all about getting this person Well, I know that if this person does this thing, I can change your life in some way. Right? It could be that they have better health can be that they have more money, whatever that is, but I can help change this searching. I'm changing somebody's life. So I need to do this. And and I would imagine, and I bring this up because this is what made me think of it when you said it's like, No, I want you to win. And when you start thinking about like that, I think it makes it a bit more I guess acceptable, least resistance in your own mind when you're approaching it.

John Molyneux  28:05  
Yeah, you've hit on a very good point. And this is we're not I don't want to I don't want to put a percentage because I don't know the actual facts and numbers on this. But a lot. I mean, I'd save quite a big percentage of especially new sales guys fall at this hurdle, because the to concerned about lining their own pockets and making the sale to benefit, then you're not really not going to listen to your pain points or what you actually want, because there aren't too concerned with what everyone, which is to sell you something that probably you may not even need because they're not listening to you. That's the big downfall. Whereas if I listened to you, I want to help you and I come to the stage where I can't physically help you because it's not a good fit. I'll say, right, this is not a good fit, I'm afraid because we don't do things that we are you're looking for this and you'd be better off with. And if I can do I'll go You're always better off speaking so Joe Bloggs about this because he can he does that button that we do things this way? I'm not going to sell to somebody that doesn't need what I've got, because that's a common, isn't it? That's not a professional salesperson. So always think about offering service and helping them I don't want to I don't want to close this is what this is what annoys me about closing closing is an old fashioned term when you think he's like from car sales and stuff. Last week, Mr. car salesmen are closing on this, this janky or I closed him on this land rover are closing on this Mercedes because it's a one hit wonder he closed it because he that he made that sale. He doesn't have to speak to him again. Because the he will take it to the Mercedes mechanic and he's always done. So it's a clause, isn't it? But if I'm offering a service where you're doing a coaching program, I will get we're going to keep following up and you're going to be part of a team or whatever, then that's a service and it's not clause. We're kind of negotiate and we we come to an agreement, don't we? So it's different and that's why a lot of the time I don't even though it's like an industry use term, isn't it? I kind of don't really like to use that.

Jake Anderson  29:53  
You know the word I agree with you and the word that I've gravitated towards that in my mind George George Bryan is the one who says that you don't sell people or close people you enroll them. Yeah, occupy work much better. You're enrolling them into what you're doing. And and I think, when you think this is, and this is what's really key, and I was having this conversation earlier today, with her name's Ashley Fernandez, she's amazing. And she does some coaching on high ticket sales and things of that nature. And we were talking about how, you know, as a coach, or a consultant, or anybody, you know, that's kind of providing that type of service for people, you'll see these situations where, you know, they'll they'll close, what do we use the word close in this contacts or closing people? And then the results don't come about and then the person gets upset because they didn't get the results, or there's some animosity there. And they, you know, and it's just like, yes, you have to like, the reason we call it enrollment, is because as the person that's doing the sale, you're also doing some kind of a qualified qualification on that person to making sure that they're actually a good fit for whatever it is that you have to offer. Because if they are, it's going to be great, it can change your life, and they will get the results. But there are times where somebody may be interested in may have the money, but they're not in the right current state. They're not they don't have the right things in place yet, or that they just don't know. And I've been through this even in entrepreneurship. You know, I've been sold like, you know, two, I remember the very first actually had a podcast coach, and he sold me on doing the pot this podcast, I'm like, wow, have an offer? You know, does that matter? He said, No, it doesn't matter. You know, you can sell somebody else's product, whatever. I'm like, Okay, and then I, I paid for the course. And then I mean, I got my podcast launch. But I failed through the course. Because I realized, as I got through it, I wasn't actually quite ready for this. And I should have to do it like the way it was designed. It's like I really need something to sell, I don't have anything. And I wasn't in the right current state. And then I got resentment towards that person, because I felt like he was being dishonest. And considering my needs, in that in that communication. So anyway, I just think that I just wanted to point that out. And I think that really plays into the enrollment piece, too. It's like understanding that current state that that person's in and making sure that actually qualified for working with you.

John Molyneux  32:33  
That's why empathy and putting yourselves into a position is such a big part of sales, because I remember a bit ago, and I ended up enrolling there, because I think she didn't need it. But this was a time I was I was working with a he was a coach in anxiety, he was offering coaching for people suffering from anxiety, which is quite a common thing, isn't it? Yeah. But the poor woman, she had 10 kids, I can't remember them. But she had 10 kids. So you got to, and she was single as well. So she had a lot of mouths to feed, and obviously bills to pay. So I'm like, Well, it wasn't, it wasn't like a 10k package or a 15k package. It was like a three or four or something like that. And I said, right, we can split this up into monthly payments for X amount of X amount a month fire, if that's more manageable, but I don't want to put you in a situation where you're overcoming anxiety, but you're struggling to put food on the table, or you can't pay the bills. So are you comfortable with moving ahead, we can do this for you, we can get you the help you need. But is it manageable? And in the end, she decided it was but I wasn't going to be too pushy with her and I was brought up to say, look, we'll leave it did I mean I didn't want to be with a lot of people up ASR. You've got to be you've got to have empathy and see things from other people's perspective. Because otherwise, she might have just signed up for it Mr. Payment and then wanting the money back anyway, join me it's gonna work for everybody. You've got to be everybody has to be happy. It's got to be Win win. So if you're working for somebody else, so the customer has to be happy that the person you're working with asked you happy you get you're happy because you get a commission. Everybody's happy. But if one of those pieces is missing, that missing, if one of the pieces is missing in that little puzzle, then it's going to fall apart.

Jake Anderson  34:13  
Yeah, yeah, it's got to be Win win. And if you and if you approach it as in, you know, the only thing only person I want to win is me because I want to be able to close this and say I hit my sales numbers, then it's kind of like you're going to get the short cash layers, the short term cash layers doing that but in the long run, it just drives tribes your brand right to the ground over the long

John Molyneux  34:37  
sales is gotta be in it for the long game. I mean, like today, I didn't like I had a call today an experienced salesperson we're gone Boom, boom, boom, just wrestled away through this call. It was it was a like a one leg or if you want to call it that way because the business partner wasn't there. So I knew straight away she said it's not really great time. I bought this car with you today but things aren't quite in place and I said listen I said that's fine I said let's let's read book it when you and your husband are together. When's the best time for you get a couple of weeks Okay, well let's make sure if you're going to do this rebook them in though and then so I did it straight away with her on the phone. I said, when's good? Friday the 20th Okay, what time boom, turn at 10am Eastern Time, is it perfect, but get a book set in with her husband, I even sent husband the link as well. So they both got the link. No, rebooked in, boom, I've got both decision max on the phone. That's the way you do it. Don't wrestle and muddle your way through a call, because you're just trying to get that sale, which this is the mentality of a new salesperson, that it just wrestled and bumbled through air through that sales call today, and it would have been a flop. Whereas I stepped back and said, right, when's best for you, I need you both on the call is a big decision. This is about both your businesses, let's get you both together. What's the best time to get your boss to get in? She just thought she was just like, Yeah, let's do it. 20, if that's fine, so it's just a really smooth process, rather than trying to Bumble new air through it today and just blowing it

Jake Anderson  36:04  
born out. And those are called setters. Right? That's like setting up the sales, the actual real sales call as far as like your your dare to, to enroll them right into the thing, because it's it the way you're describing, it almost sounds like it's like a two step right. And it was like this with my first company, like somebody would call in. And they would say, Hey, I'm interested in lighting for and this was like, not your traditional cold call, because they're calling us narrating that they've already been kind of pre sold by a referral partner. But they let's still they're still process there, they had to take them through doesn't mean they're that mean, you're gonna you're gonna win the sale. So they will call and it's like, I remember was like, Listen, don't ever try to sell on that first call, like you sell the commitment. And, and I remember, like, if somebody is willing to to slot out 20 Well, in this case, because we had a consultation room, like if they're willing to take an hour out of their day, to drive to our office, sit down with us for an hour to talk about lightning. There's something to be said about that. Right? That's a very different person than the person who just like it, because that was a big qualifier for us. Like they say yes to that commitment. There. They're going to be they're far more qualified than the person who's like, I'm just kind of power kicking around right now, trying to see like what some prices are, I'm not really serious about anything. I don't really know what I'm serious about. I'm just tired, kicking it kicking the tires walking down. And it's like this people waste your time. It's like, when you're ready to like, take a Take, take some serious looks at this commitment, let me know. But until you know, while you're kicking your tires, like come back to me when you're done doing that, because I don't have time for that. Obviously, that's the conversation in the head. But having that having that process where it's like that first call, and that's why I understand sounds like that's what you were doing too, because you're getting them to schedule. The deeper dive, right? Yeah.

John Molyneux  38:01  
Yeah, there's two main reasons for doing it the way I did it, one, it looks like I'm being professional. I'm not trying to rush anything. I'm stepping back, I'm given the time to figure things out. I've said Look, I appreciate his two decision makes unless you've got in this family business together. I don't want to give you the information for you to give him the information which is which is a bit like Chinese whispers. And then him having any questions come back at me. I want to get you both on the call. So you can barf list to make comfortable decisions together, boom. So instead of me going through the process and doing it to her on her own, and then at the end saying it because this objection is a common objection, you only need to have probably made 20 or 30 sales calls in your life. And I bet you at least two or three or four of them have said I need to speak to my partner but I misspoke. It's across the board no matter what you're selling or what you're doing. So the I've come across a professional I've not received anything and I've also overcome the objection in one fell swoop that comes up quite a lot. And now I'm going to speak to the game in a couple of weeks. And I even said Look, I said I said I think this is perfect for you. You're at the right stage to move on and scale in your in your business. We can help you do that. So I just left it on a really good now she's going to call her husband and say right we speak to john at pero media and a couple of weeks he's really professional. Sounds like they can really help us blah blah blah. And he's just she's just gonna pass the message on so when I get to speak to involve I'm thinking that we're going to already have a good reporter. I spent another few minutes building report again getting to know husband, and then we're all connected. We're like the tree or then out wherever we can, we can kind of seal the deal. Hopefully that's how it should go anyway.

Jake Anderson  39:31  
Yeah, yeah, I mean, it's and that's your sales process me and if you don't have a sales process, then you need to get one because you need to think about and this is a great this is a great interview because there's almost like a masterclass to this as well talking about, you know, the sales process, things that you need to be wary of what in what you say and how you say it. And there's some mindset pieces in here and how you should perceive cold calling and And just kind of going through that whole, you know, that whole thought process behind cold calling. So this is cool. I've never had a conversation about cold calling before to this level. And now that like kind of diving into it and, you know, unpacking it and really thinking through it, I actually don't feel as cuz I, you know, be honest, I had a pretty negative perspective on cold calling. It's like, I don't want to do that. I like I will. I will run from the businesses that require me to have to cold call people and do cold calling. But after this interview actually have I've had an issue like I'm like, you know what, actually kind of like cold call somebody right now. That'd be fun to do. If

John Molyneux  40:43  
you smile and dial,

Jake Anderson  40:45  
whatever you find on the on the podcast is cold call somebody has to do that. Yeah, I think I'd probably break some like privacy laws doing that. But it would be cool. Just a thought. Yeah.

John Molyneux  40:58  
I mean, if one of my missions is Jackie's subject to change people's opinions on it, because it's not, it's not like going to break you, it's not gonna, it's not going to hurt you, a form being put down on you. And the only thing that's going to hurt is your ego. But once you get used to it, it's not gonna even affect that anymore. So it's a win win situation. If you want to drum up more business, just start cold calling people and just be straight to the appointment with mica said, Don't beat around the bush don't namby pamby because you're gonna see through that the last thing somebody wants just to hear on a phone is somebody that they don't know going. Just dribbling on, like wasting your time, you want to be direct with them straight to the point and say, Look, I'm ringing because of this. I'm from such and such a place, I'm ringing, because I want to know if this interests even in the slightest, or have you considered, I've even considered this idea. So if you if they're still on the on the other end of one, you can see you can tell the culture in the thinking about it, you've got to you've gotten to the first batch, or whatever you want to call it. And we'll talk Best Buy your first batch if they're still on the phone. So it's, it's like you say, it's just frameworks to if you want to be a successful cold calling, it is a ways of doing it. Plenty of plenty of methods out. So what I'd say is give yourself X amount of time. So I'm going to do 20 calls in a minute, I'm going to do 30 in the afternoon. So make sure you've got structure. And then also do five calls in and have a break another five calls and and have a break. Or if you if you do two calls and you get that phone slam or that hang up, give yourself an early break, just to do it logically don't never ever go right. So say for example, you get unlucky because you do have unlucky days and I get on a call and I'm really pumped up and I'm ready to go. And I get a ring one and it was a hang up a ring number two and it was it was an answering machine. Ring number three is another answering machine. I think number four is hang up. Ring number five is a handle. Do you think I'm going to carry on ringing numbers? No, no, if you do, you just don't get burnt out you're going to get aggressive. The thing that we're thinking about sales is after then we had hangups and hang up and engage that sixth one could be the one that could be mister I'm ready for this happy go lucky ready to do whatever your offer is. But if I'm already aggron peed off, because I've just got five really crappy calls. I'm going to I'm going to put that negativity onto him. Whereas if I step away our coffee, and our water and blistering music and Busan do some deep breathing, and then I'm Mr. Positive again want to speak to him, boom, you're on the same page.

Jake Anderson  43:34  
Yeah, and I think it could even go the other way, you might get really lucky. And pick up the phone call and they pick up in a close second call and they pick up blows the third call and you think you're just like me, and I'm like Jordan Belfort every year just like make that happen.

John Molyneux  43:50  
And Scott, yeah, the funny thing is you've hit the nail on the head, that is the beauty of sales, and that that does happen. So you could be on a roll. And then because you're all pumped up and you're in the right frame mindset, then you can escalate and keep keep going that way as well. It happens when I used to do a lot of closing high ticket. So if I, if I've got five calls booked in, the first one doesn't show up, and then the second one clauses, and then all the three, if I've closed one already, there's a good chance I can close the second and maybe even a third it does tend to once you've got the momentum going, you're in the right frame of mind. It does kind of scale that way.

Jake Anderson  44:24  
So john, we are getting near the end of the episode here and man I appreciate that all the conversation and talking about cold calling. It's it's really been cool to to learn myself and and to, you know, have some shifts in perspective about it because it certainly was something that I didn't have the most positive relationship with and you felt it you felt it change for myself, and I'm sure any of the listeners here would probably agree that by the end of this episode, that's the shift you're going to get. So I want to ask like how can people get connected with you? I know you've got a book Well, I'd love to, for you to share some information about your book. And, and yeah, let's hear it. Well,

John Molyneux  45:07  
it's called the sales Samurai master. It's available on Amazon, you can get it on paperback or Kindle. I wrote it in lockdown, actually, and I've been thinking about it for many years, and I can't kind of put it off because I thought it was a mammoth task no Finn. And the intense they didn't do it too big. It's all 130 pages, something Reason being is the North Lof sales book is literally for anybody that's a brand new newbie, or wherever you're seasoned, or what is it and anything in between. So it's gonna be good for if you're a brand new coach, if you're an entrepreneur, if you're a small business owner, it's got nuggets in it, it's gonna be appealing to anybody. So yeah, I would I started but it's about cold calling. It's got bits about clauses, in it, everything, building rapport, following up with people, that's another thing that people get overlooked so much is following up, people just don't do it enough, or at all, even, you've got to follow up with people, you can't expect everybody to buy, buy, buy straight away, you don't do that do if you're going to buy a car, you might go and look at it two or three, four times over a space of a few months. It's the same with most things. People don't tend to buy it unless it's like clothing and stuff a lot. People may buy that on the spot. But lots of things like in the selling industry, you may have to follow up two or three or even four times so there's lots of different material in Black's. It's no fluff. If you want to find out more or connect with me, I'm building minds coming among martial arts, I do a lot of non chokes and that kind of thing on my Instagram. That's sales, Samurai 80. That's my handle on there. You can also find me unmute yourself, YouTube, I've got the sales Samurai YouTube channel. But I've also got the cold calling closing mastery, not only Facebook group, but also podcast show. Perfect Well, I'll

Jake Anderson  46:52  
make sure to add all this all everything about your book and how to connect with you. In your show notes page, which for anybody listening, we just go to WWW dot introspective podcast comm backslash john Molyneux in sj OHNMOLY in EUX that will take you to the page and just let that be kind of your hub to take journey with john the sales Samurai How are you please get this book connected with them listen to this episode, check out the YouTube clip, whichever pleases your current state at that time as you enter as you interact with, with his with his presence and in the world that he's creating here and making cold calling cool, like making it something that you know, he can get excited about thinking like let's look at it more positively. I think you can get something excited about I think it doesn't need to be something that That's so scary and and don't shy away from it. The resistances they're having so solved. But, john, for those people out there that are listening, just share some final thoughts. What would you say to that person right now who is who knows that they need to do it. They know they need to start picking up the phone. But they're just fine.

John Molyneux  48:05  
Again, it's all we've mentioned it a few times is mindset, just the way you think about things. What I what iTunes thinks I've got the opportunity to speak to a lot of people, not everybody that you speak to is going to be igrow or pissed off at me, I swear. People people, a lot of people are happy and they're happy to speak to you regardless. I mean, I used to find it a lot when I used to knock on doors you used to get all people that answered the door and they were pleased to see you because they're all done along there. Not everybody you speak to is going to be negative and not not wanting to speak to lots of people even if you don't get an appointment mad you're going to get a nice and not a lot of good feedback. You may even get referrals you can get referrals from cold calls. That's another good thing you can ask for. So Alright, appreciate that. It's not something you're looking for. Have you got any friends in the industry? That might be oh well yeah, it could be just get them thinking and just try try new things try different angles. I'm not trying to say that cold calling is the be all end all I've been I've been naive to think that but if you've got if you've got a sales team and a marketing team, make them work together so you've got a marketing you've got social media marketing, you've got one guy doing cold calling, you've got one guy doing email marketing job you just have don't think what the problem is. Some people say, Oh, I don't like cold calling cold calling is dead so they don't even think of using as a strategy. I'm not saying all your efforts and all you hope to have a whole team of 10 telesales guys all cold calling, might not be a good idea. But if you've got if you've got a couple of cold callers and a good marketing team, let's think of it that way. Just have it as a strategy, not the be all and end all.

Jake Anderson  49:38  
Love it. Awesome, man. Well, thank you so much for that and for being on the show today bringing your expertise and and, and your interesting take on, you know, looking at cold calling and the advice that you have, it's been a pleasure. I know the audience will appreciate your value as well. And for anybody listening Thank you for listening And john, thank you for being here. And we will see you on the next episode. Thanks a lot. Awesome. All right.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Welcome to another new week here on the Introspective. For today, we're going to talk about some things that are really going to challenge your discipline as an entrepreneur. These might be, for some, uncomfortable things in business especially if anybody has ever done this: cold calling. If you've ever had to go and do a cold call, it might feel tough especially when you feel like you're interrupting somebody's day. It can be really uncomfortable. But there’s no need to fear because today, ‘Sales Samurai’ John Molyneux is here on the Introspective to help us with that in our today’s deep dive!

John is a sales and martial arts expert with extensive experience in cold calling door-to-door and on the phones. With his extensive experience in cold calling, he has done hundreds of thousands of dollars in sales. He has sold a number of products and services, which he has done over the years. His incredible ‘Sales Samurai’ journey began in his 20’s when he served At Her Majesty's pleasure in the British Armed Forces. Even though he was not destined to be a soldier for the rest of his career, this experience set the stage for his entrepreneurial path to becoming the ‘Sales Samurai’. Not only does he have a successful and promising sales future, he is also a black belter in karate, a podcast host (Cold Calling and Closing Mastery), and a speaker. Sit back and relax as we listen to John regarding how we can make the sale!

What You'll Learn

  • Utilizing martial arts or any discipline to improve your sales
  • Overcoming the fear of sales and the fear of rejection
  • Why sales (prospecting, cold calling, closing the deal, etc.) is fun and not something to really worry about

“Have that sheer determination to keep pushing and keep pushing, even when everything's against you. You just keep going. ” 

-John Molyneux

Learn the things that you should be thinking about if you are going to cold call somebody.

Connect with John Molyneux

‘Sales Samurai Master: Get Your Black Belt in Sales’

‘Sales Samurai Master: Get Your Black Belt in Sales’ is available here

Follow this Podcast

Thank you for taking a deep dive on today’s episode of the Introspective Podcast.  If you found this episode to be interesting, valuable, and provided some fresh perspective for your entrepreneur journey - then head on over to Itunes to subscribe and leave a review with your feedback.  If you’re not an Apple user, then feel free to leave a comment below with your thoughts.  Your feedback is paramount to the success of this show, and provides direction for how I can best serve you.

-Your friendly Podcast Host, Jake Anderson 

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